Glucophage Q's

[PitBullFootBall]

Glad the sites back up because I have a question that I wasn't able to find a solid answer to on the net...

What would be a good protocol for glucophage while running a moderately low dose of hgh and igf with test? Before jumping into slin I'd like to give glucophage a shot. And should I up my dextrose while on it? Right now I use about 50g PWO. I was thinking of upping that to 100g.

I have also heard it reduces hunger between meals - how pronounced is this effect? b/c with my body type and goals I need to eat big-time.

The info out on the net has a fairly wide variance, but the most popular protocol seems to be about 800mg PWO.

glad to be back.

[sammarbella]

HGH lowers insulin response (secretion), IGF1 has insulin like effect (on glucose levels, hipoglucemia).

I sugest you to start with HGH and IGF.

After a week and based on your body response slowery add glucophage starting with low dose of half tab twice daily (425mg x2) and finally go to 1 tab of 850 mg twice daly.

If you are endomorph Glucophagew will be a way better for you than insulin, cause it upgrade your slin sensitivity instead of increase slin production; not so effective as slin but less fat depot and slower up and down of glucose levels.

[Monster Rhino]

So are you suggesting that someone who is an endomorph, and using HGH and IGF, start using glucophage (starting with low dose of half tab twice daily (425mg x2) and finally go to 1 tab of 850 mg twice daly), first instead of starting slin (let's say at 2iu pwo and working up to 10iu pwo)?

I'm planning on starting slin in the off season but eventually keeping it going into my pre-comp prep... do you suggest that glucophage would be better for me in regards to minimizing the potential fat gain?

thnx,
MR

[sammarbella]

So are you suggesting that someone who is an endomorph, and using HGH and IGF, start using glucophage (starting with low dose of half tab twice daily (425mg x2) and finally go to 1 tab of 850 mg twice daly), first instead of starting slin (let's say at 2iu pwo and working up to 10iu pwo)?

I'm planning on starting slin in the off season but eventually keeping it going into my pre-comp prep... do you suggest that glucophage would be better for me in regards to minimizing the potential fat gain?

thnx,
MR

Yes, that's the point.

The major problems of endomorphs is the "bad" relation between carbs and slin action, they develop slin resistance in muscles but of course no resistance in fat cells leading to diabetes type II (slin resistance type).

That means less glucogen repletion instead of FAST fat depot. :(

That's why glucophage could be better for Endomorphs: it IMPROVE slin sensitivity (to your own slin) making it works better repleting muscles and having less fat depot.( in fact glucophage is prescribed for that: diabetes type II or pre diabetic stages due to slin resistance).

If you want to "play" with slin and you are endomorph try to improve your own slin use: give a chance to glucophage.

Of course glucophage is not the same than exo slin in terms of anabolism but there is only a SLIGHT risk (less hipo, less fast up and downs of glucose levels) compared to slin and fat depot will be minimal (compared).

:cool:

[Gavin Kane]

It takes a long time to release into the bloodstream. Taking it pwo won't do a thing. You ideally should take one 850mg tab in the am with breakfast and another one later in the day. You can work up to 3 tabs a day safely.

It is pretty damn mild and won't cause near the same effects as slin...both good or bad.

[Monster Rhino]

I think it's fair to say that as long as I'm following a semi-strict diet, there should be minimal chance of storing fat with using slin, especially if I'm only doing pwo slin injects and not consuming any dietary fat pwo as well... correct?

MR

[sammarbella]

I think it's fair to say that as long as I'm following a semi-strict diet, there should be minimal chance of storing fat with using slin, especially if I'm only doing pwo slin injects and not consuming any dietary fat pwo as well... correct?

MR

If you don't want to be "fatty" semi-strict diet is not enough with slin use.

Any excess in carbs (more carbs than slin can store in muscle as glucogen) will be stored as SOLID FAT.PERIOD.

Of course if the next meal after taking the slin shot and fast action carbs+protein has fat it will be stored as fat.

This meal is even more important (risk of fat deposit) than the slin shake cause your glucogen storage will be full or near to be full and any excess in calories or fast action carbs/fat will be stored as fat; for this meal take only complex carbs and clean protein (no fat).

It is pretty damn mild and won't cause near the same effects as slin...both good or bad.

Right, Glucophage has FAR less anabolic effect (and fat depot) compared to exo slin.

Exo slin for meso (and specially for ecto) is a very POWERFULL HORMONE (maybe the most powerfull) for anabolism.

For an endo it could be a disaster due to his slin resistance in muscle and his never never satisfied adipocytes.

That's why it could be a better aproach to improve own slin sensitivity instead of increase total slin in endo case, in fact an endo OVERPRODUCE his own slin in presence of a big amount of fast action carbs to surpass his slin resistance in muscle.

[Monster Rhino]

OK, I think you've convinced me... instead of going right up to the extreme of slin, I'll try the glucophage first... I don't want to be a "fatty" any more than I am... lol

On a similar topic, what do you guys think of this? I took a 4 month course of HGH with a 4 wk course of IGF during that last 4 weeks before my last show. It worked absolutely great... thanks again for AP's help!... came in over 25 lbs heavier than last year and placed 2nd (fukkin water retention! I'll stop the HGH 2 weeks out from the show next time.).

But here is the question/comment - last year I gained 46 lbs within 4 days after the show! This year I've only gained 20 lbs post comp. In fact, after eating copious amounts of pizza and pasta after the show, I woke up the next morning to find myself 3 lbs less than weigh-in and looking like the overall winner! Needless to say, I was fukkin mad... but that's another topic I'm looking into. It's a month after the show now and I'm not really watching my diet... in fact, I'm eating quite a lot more carbs than before and all that's happening is I'm getting stronger and filling out. I'm near the end of pct and peeps are asking me what show I'm training for?

Did the HGH and/or IGF cause a permanent change in my metabolism, or slin sensitivity? It's quite amazing I'm able to stay this lean post comp when in the past I've balooned up and looked like a beached whale within days of the show. If the HGH and/iGF caused a permanent change, then I can't wait to do it again but this time for all off season as well as pre-comp.

Has anybody else experienced this?

Thanks again for all your help guyz... I think you may have saved me from turning into a fatty... mind you, I'm not saying I'll never use slin... I'm just going to save that later. :-)

MR

[sammarbella]

I don't want to be a "fatty" any more than I am... lol


Don't worry about that...you can always come back to fatty look using exo slin!
:amen:

(fukkin water retention! I'll stop the HGH 2 weeks out from the show next time.).


Why people always discover water retention from HGH on stage?:blobyellow:


Did the HGH and/or IGF cause a permanent change in my metabolism, or slin sensitivity? It's quite amazing I'm able to stay this lean post comp when in the past I've balooned up and looked like a beached whale within days of the show. If the HGH and/iGF caused a permanent change, then I can't wait to do it again but this time for all off season as well as pre-comp.

The change in metabolism are not directly from the action of the hormones but due to body recomp (if not the changes will revert after cycle of them):

- Less fat (then less fat depot, less leptin production).
- More lean body mass (metabolism speeds up, you need more calories to mantain mass, then is difficult to gain fat).

These changes are semi-permanent. (yes you can always comes back to fatty look but it will hard than before :) )

Maybe there are a few permanent changes:

- Hyperplasia(HGH)
- IGF gut.Intestine has a lot of igf 1 receptors, if they are strongly activated by IGF1 this smooth muscle will be bigger for ever.(not all body are similar but is a general new lokk on stages: a line of pregnant bodybuilders...)
:preggers:
- Bones enlargment. (only using high HGH doses daily and during long time +6 U.I for many weeks.)
- Speed up of any cancer process.(HGH).

[Monster Rhino]

Why people always discover water retention from HGH on stage?:blobyellow:

It's not that I "discovered water retention from HGH on stage", but rather I thought I could lose the water retention using water manipulation/carb load/etc processes but it didn't work out. I wanted to be as a full as possible but all I ended looking like was a bloated puffer fish... ok, not that bad (I still got 2 nd) but you know what I'm talking about. I thought, among things, that stopping the HGH about 2 weeks out would be one thing I'm going to change as I've learned since then that HGH does cause water retention.

The change in metabolism are not directly from the action of the hormones but due to body recomp (if not the changes will revert after cycle of them):

- Less fat (then less fat depot, less leptin production).
- More lean body mass (metabolism speeds up, you need more calories to mantain mass, then is difficult to gain fat).

These changes are semi-permanent. (yes you can always comes back to fatty look but it will hard than before :) )

Maybe there are a few permanent changes:

- Hyperplasia(HGH)
- IGF gut.Intestine has a lot of igf 1 receptors, if they are strongly activated by IGF1 this smooth muscle will be bigger for ever.(not all body are similar but is a general new lokk on stages: a line of pregnant bodybuilders...)
:preggers:
- Bones enlargment. (only using high HGH doses daily and during long time +6 U.I for many weeks.)
- Speed up of any cancer process.(HGH).[/QUOTE]

What you said here makes sense... as for the speeding up of any cancer process, let's hope not!

Thanks for yur comments Sam!

MR

[Gavin Kane]

You are convinced to try glucophage cause one guy writes something about it? Please do more research, this guy sounds awfully anti-slin which leads me to believe that he has never competed. You want to run with the big dogs you gotta run slin, plain and simple. If you do enough research and learn how to control it you will not get fat on slin, period. I don't care what this guy says.

[Monster Rhino]

Sorry sam... AP is my "Coach" in regards to the Big 3 (Hgh, Igf, and Slin) and he has never steered me wrong. Like I said before, he helped me gain over 25 lbs LBM in less than one competition year... and that was just IGF and HGH. With slin, he knows what my goals are and he knows what needs to be done to get there.

AP - sorry bro, thanks for getting me back in line! Plans are still in place to go with the 3x week protocol so it's all good.

MR

[sammarbella]

You are convinced to try glucophage cause one guy writes something about it? Please do more research, this guy sounds awfully anti-slin which leads me to believe that he has never competed. You want to run with the big dogs you gotta run slin, plain and simple. If you do enough research and learn how to control it you will not get fat on slin, period. I don't care what this guy says.

I don't want to convince him.

You are right, one opinion is only that...one opinion. :sing: , the best investment for Rhino (in order to improve his physique) is to do more research and look for the adequate knowledge for his own case.

Maybe my opinions seems to be anti-slin but you are wrong, i've nothing against it, i think the dangerous sides are overestimated and the "fatty" sides are underestimated in case of endomorphs.

I think that exo slin is the powerfull hormone for anabolism leading you to a superior level but reading between lines i think he is endo (or has a strong %) and in this case he will need a BIG help from you in the diet aspect if he start an exo slin cycle!


Sorry sam... AP is my "Coach" in regards to the Big 3 (Hgh, Igf, and Slin) and he has never steered me wrong. Like I said before, he helped me gain over 25 lbs LBM in less than one competition year... and that was just IGF and HGH. With slin, he knows what my goals are and he knows what needs to be done to get there.

No need to apologize.:caeked:

I'm only a little newbie trying to learn and help the others.

I respect the Almost Pro knowledge and i'm with him 98% of the time, about the other 2 % i have my own different point of view.


" Opinions are like asses, everybody has one...please don't shit on me" :dizzy:

[PitBullFootBall]

good stuff
what about a slin/glucophage blend?
perhaps start at half a tab of glucophage in the morning and 2iu's of slin pwo?

Would the 2 work well together?
Moreover, since the glucophage and the igf-1 increase insulin sensitivity would that cause problems? or would one just employ a lower dose of slin?

I'm an ecto but I look like a meso from working out - I get some slight belly fat but when I button up my diet it melts away in days. Its a blessing and a curse - I can eat anything but I struggle mightily to stay up in the 225-230 range. So slin seems like a good choice - I have done lots of research and I have some humalog in the fridge but I wanted to give the glucophage a chance first.

I'm starting the 3x a week (m,w,f) am and pwo-evening routine this week as well.

btw, 4 days a week I run - alternate agility/explosiveness and endurance - its very intensive and competitive so would my AM shots cause any problems. No slin am just gh and igf - 2hrs later we run.
thanks.