Low dose HGH cycle info????

[steamboat05]

I'm very interested in using HGH, mainly for fat burning properties to run alongside various AAS cycles.

Do any of you guys have experience/knowledge of running a relatively low dose, say 2iu's EOD together with 25mcg T4 (to assist T4-T3 conversion and upregulate conversion pathways of GH) EOD over 6 months.

Various AAS cycles will be used for mass/strength gains so i'm really just looking at fat loss through the GH use (especially abdominally) and maybe a little assistance in muscle cell division/multiplication?


A little background info:

I'm just under 6ft 2in and fairly lean (fat wise) naturally but never as defined as i've always wanted. Have had experience with a good few AAS cycles gaining riduculous amounts of weight and strength (bodyweight increase from 172lbs up to 224lbs) so i have no doubt about the muscular weight gain possible but have always had a small covering layer of fat, and obviously water at my heaviest.

Please give me some real-world knowledge of this situation.

Thanks.

[sammarbella]

I'm very interested in using HGH, mainly for fat burning properties to run alongside various AAS cycles.

Do any of you guys have experience/knowledge of running a relatively low dose, say 2iu's EOD together with 25mcg T4 (to assist T4-T3 conversion and upregulate conversion pathways of GH) EOD over 6 months.

Various AAS cycles will be used for mass/strength gains so i'm really just looking at fat loss through the GH use (especially abdominally) and maybe a little assistance in muscle cell division/multiplication?


A little background info:

I'm just under 6ft 2in and fairly lean (fat wise) naturally but never as defined as i've always wanted. Have had experience with a good few AAS cycles gaining riduculous amounts of weight and strength (bodyweight increase from 172lbs up to 224lbs) so i have no doubt about the muscular weight gain possible but have always had a small covering layer of fat, and obviously water at my heaviest.

Please give me some real-world knowledge of this situation.

Thanks.

How old are you?

If you are under 30's 2 I.U. will don't do much for you, only antiaging effect and you are still young. :)

I'm 33 taking 2x2 I.U. ED since april and since 2 months with thyroid hormones (start with T3 25 mcgs durring AAS cutting cycle and switching to T4 100mcgs).

I think 2x2 I.U. ED is optimal for fatloss (for fatloss is more efective less dose but frequent, for mass is more effective high doses and infrequent) and it minimize the sides (water retention and the fucking pain in some bones of the hands).

About muscle cell division/multiplication you will get a little assistance from GH hepatic IGF-1 production stimulation from 2-4 I.U. per day.

To get a real big help in this aspect is more effective to do infrequent higher HGH doses 10-15 I.U. or directly do a cycle of IGF1-LR3 for 30-45 days (many times more potent than regular IGF-1 and with a half-life up to 10 hours instead of 15-20 minutes of regular IGF-1 ) as i do.

With these drugs your bigger problem will be the $$$ aspect otherwise you will get HUGE benefits.

[steamboat05]

I am 30.

Do you feel 2iu's EOD for 6 months wouldn't give an effective result (fatloss wise), would 4iu's ED over 3 months be better?

Out of interest what are typical doses for IGF-LR3 in mcgs? And are there any fatloss benefits from this or is it only lean mass gains?

[steamboat05]

oh, and is insulin use a neccesity with low dose GH or IGF use?

[sammarbella]

I am 30.

Do you feel 2iu's EOD for 6 months wouldn't give an effective result (fatloss wise), would 4iu's ED over 3 months be better?

Out of interest what are typical doses for IGF-LR3 in mcgs? And are there any fatloss benefits from this or is it only lean mass gains?

2 I.U. will only give you some antiaging benefits and a minimal fatloss, 2x2 I.U. will be optimal.

Optimal means in this case that 2x2I.U. per day will give you the best relation relation between dose and effectiviness in fatloss aspect, much more fat will be lost on 2x2 HGH I.U. daily pattern than in the only 2 HGH I.U. daily pattern and only a litlle less compared to 3x2 or 4x2 ect....

It's my first IGF-1LR3 cycle and i use it in PCT from a cutting cycle at 2x33mcgs daily (1PWO and another before bedtime with a huge protein shake).

It makes me hungry and more i eat...more fat i lost!

The effect of IGF1-LR3 in my body is simply impressive, i add 30% more calories to my diet than in the cutting cycle...and i start to loose fat AGAIN!

Pumps are impresive, i see new veins in my body everywhere and i apreciated a slight muscle and strengh gain.

Weight is roughly the same, body comp is different!

[sammarbella]

oh, and is insulin use a neccesity with low dose GH or IGF use?

If you use HGH for fatloss and you add insulin you will lost the fatloss aspect of HGH...HGH maybe will be able to prevent the fat build-up from slin but not to overide it and lost fat.

But if you use HGH for mass, insulin is a must cause HGH lowers endo slin and adding exo slin will result in a sinergy between them leading your body to a new level of muscularity.

IGF1 and slin doesn't make a good stack due to things like this:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/IGF-1

IGF-1 binds to at least two cell surface receptors: the IGF-1 Receptor (IGFR), and the insulin receptor. The IGF-1 receptor seems to be the "physiologic" receptor - it binds IGF-1 at significantly higher affinity than it binds the insulin receptor. Like the insulin receptor, the IGF-1 receptor is a receptor tyrosine kinase - meaning it signals by causing the addition of a phosphate molecule on particular tyrosines. IGF-1 activates the Insulin receptor at approximately 0.1x the potency of insulin. Part of this signaling may be via IGF1R/Insulin Receptor heterodimers (the reason for the confusion is that binding studies show that IGF1 binds the insulin receptor 100-fold less well than insulin, yet that does not correlate with the actual potency of IGF1 in vivo at inducing phosphorylation of the Insulin receptor, and hypoglycemia).


If IGF1-LR3 activates its own receptors and insulin receptor who are strongly binded by concominant exo insulin you will get a waste of expensive IGF1-LR3.

Is better to stack HGH with IGF1-LR3 for 4 weeks followed by a stack of HGH with slin for 4 weeks, after that you can repeat this protocol with or without AAS.

A stack of HGH with IGF1-LR3 will be fine for PCT from a cutting cycle to prevent fat gain and muscle loss (even a little amount of muscle could be added).

A stack of HGH with slin will be fine to prevent excesive (if any) muscle loss and you will be able to continue with high calories diet without putting too much fat on (a little amount of T4 will be great in this case).

[steamboat05]

are there any special guidelines regarding diet with IGF-1 like any necessity to take in carbs, protein, fats, hi GI, low GI etc immediately before or after shots?

[sammarbella]

are there any special guidelines regarding diet with IGF-1 like any necessity to take in carbs, protein, fats, hi GI, low GI etc immediately before or after shots?

Depends on IGF1 type.

Regular IGF1 (70 amino) has a very short halflife.(around 10 minutes).

IGF-1 LR3 (83 amino) has a half life a longer halflife.(from 6 to 10 hours).

With its use you can experience a slight hipo (but nowhere near the one you could experience with exo slin) if you don't take your carbs.

IGF-1 is Insulin Like growth factor 1 and acts mimicking the transport action of carbs and aminos to muscle like slin does but with a huge difference, slin is lipogenic (it promotes fat depot from excesive calories) but IGF-1 is lipolitic (it promotes the fatloss).

On IGF-1 you will feel hungry and you will need to take carbs after a shot PWO.

Read the sticky post from AP about his protocol for IGF1:

http://www.anabolex.com/forums/showthread.php?p=51103#post51103

[willbepro]

2 I.U. will only give you some antiaging benefits and a minimal fatloss, 2x2 I.U. will be optimal.

Optimal means in this case that 2x2I.U. per day will give you the best relation relation between dose and effectiviness in fatloss aspect, much more fat will be lost on 2x2 HGH I.U. daily pattern than in the only 2 HGH I.U. daily pattern and only a litlle less compared to 3x2 or 4x2 ect....

It's my first IGF-1LR3 cycle and i use it in PCT from a cutting cycle at 2x33mcgs daily (1PWO and another before bedtime with a huge protein shake).

It makes me hungry and more i eat...more fat i lost!

The effect of IGF1-LR3 in my body is simply impressive, i add 30% more calories to my diet than in the cutting cycle...and i start to loose fat AGAIN!

Pumps are impresive, i see new veins in my body everywhere and i apreciated a slight muscle and strengh gain.

Weight is roughly the same, body comp is different!


When u say 2iu will give minimal benifits is this even when stacken with steroids and insulin..??? as i have just invested in some GH and was told 2iu is a good starting step but would be willing to buy more and use 4 iu a day

[steamboat05]

Depends on IGF1 type.

Regular IGF1 (70 amino) has a very short halflife.(around 10 minutes).

IGF-1 LR3 (83 amino) has a half life a longer halflife.(from 6 to 10 hours).

With its use you can experience a slight hipo (but nowhere near the one you could experience with exo slin) if you don't take your carbs.

IGF-1 is Insulin Like growth factor 1 and acts mimicking the transport action of carbs and aminos to muscle like slin does but with a huge difference, slin is lipogenic (it promotes fat depot from excesive calories) but IGF-1 is lipolitic (it promotes the fatloss).

On IGF-1 you will feel hungry and you will need to take carbs after a shot PWO.

Read the sticky post from AP about his protocol for IGF1:

http://www.anabolex.com/forums/showthread.php?p=51103#post51103

thanks for the info

[sammarbella]

When u say 2iu will give minimal benifits is this even when stacken with steroids and insulin..??? as i have just invested in some GH and was told 2iu is a good starting step but would be willing to buy more and use 4 iu a day

If you are around 30's 2 I.U. HGH will do very little for you by itself (in $$$ comparaison to a steroid cycle...), combined with slin and steroid it will have a sinergic effect with them making each other MORE effective.(more gains from test, less fat from slin,ect..).

Combine the previous with 0,25 mg of Adex each day and a slight diuretic and you will get a fantastic cycle.

But if you do the previous stack with 2x2 I.U. HGH daily and it will be a huge difference (by istelf or combined).

If you go to 2x2 I.U. check your BP...it could be in the high range due to water retention from HGH (high HGH dose stimulates the production of A.D.H. (Anti-Diuretic Hormone) to go up)if it's the case take a slight diuretic could be mandatory to control that (P.E. Clonidine) always taking the minimum effective dose of it.

[willbepro]

If you are around 30's 2 I.U. HGH will do very little for you by itself (in $$$ comparaison to a steroid cycle...), combined with slin and steroid it will have a sinergic effect with them making each other MORE effective.(more gains from test, less fat from slin,ect..).

Combine the previous with 0,25 mg of Adex each day and a slight diuretic and you will get a fantastic cycle.

But if you do the previous stack with 2x2 I.U. HGH daily and it will be a huge difference (by istelf or combined).

If you go to 2x2 I.U. check your BP...it could be in the high range due to water retention from HGH (high HGH dose stimulates the production of A.D.H. (Anti-Diuretic Hormone) to go up)if it's the case take a slight diuretic could be mandatory to control that (P.E. Clonidine) always taking the minimum effective dose of it.

Thanks for that.... but y use arimidex???
Also the stuff i have got says intrmuscular but from what i have read with GH it can be use Sub or intra m am i right...? is 4 months long enoguh on gh to see binifets as i have read that the results are only really seen at the 4 month mark an on?

[sammarbella]

Thanks for that.... but y use arimidex???
Also the stuff i have got says intrmuscular but from what i have read with GH it can be use Sub or intra m am i right...? is 4 months long enoguh on gh to see binifets as i have read that the results are only really seen at the 4 month mark an on?

Adex in case of GH and test stack, it will prevent aromatization from test and water retention.

The effect of GH is acumulative, more time you are "on" more results you'll see.

At month 4 you will see results, at month 5 you'll more results and so on...

Sub-Q vs IM HGH:

(extract)

http://www.moderntherapy.com/humatropin.html

Quote

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PHARMACOKINETICS Absorption --Humatrope has been studied following intramuscular, subcutaneous, and intravenous administration in adult volunteers. The absolute bioavailability of somatropin is 75% and 63% after subcutaneous and intramuscular administration, respectively.
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If more HGH is avalaible from sub-q, you'll get more for the same $$$. :)

And some reasons more in favor of Sub-Q(abstract of study):

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/query.fcgi?cmd=Retrieve&db=PubMed&list_uids=6889608&dopt=Abstract

A comparison of subcutaneous and intramuscular administration of human growth hormone in the therapy of growth hormone deficiency.

Russo L, Moore WV.

The sc and im administration of human GH (hGH) was compared in the therapy of GH deficiency. The peak and integrated concentrations of hGH in the plasma of the patients were similar after sc and im injection of an initial dose (0.1 U/kg) of hGH. The peak hGH concentration occurred at 2 h in both groups. The posttreatment height velocity and the change in height velocity at 3-month intervals were also similar in the im and sc groups. The somatomedin generation test resulted in a higher mean peak of somatomedin C after sc injection; however, if the individual peaks of somatomedin C were averaged, there was no difference between sc and im injection. A cross-over at 9 months of therapy to determine patient acceptance of im vs. sc injections indicated overwhelming acceptance of the sc route. The antibody responses to hGH were similar in both groups. We conclude that sc injection of hGH is an effective and safe mode of therapy for GH deficiency. The lipoatrophy that occurred infrequently at the injection site can be eliminated by rotation of sites. Subcutaneous administration of hGH will be more acceptable by the patients with less pain and less noncompliance.

Recap:

- More HGH will be avalaible Sub-Q than IM.
- Sub-Q and IM are equals in effectivity.
- Localized lipoatrophy from Sub-Q (it occurs to loose fat where do you inject Sub-Q...mid-section is the best target for Sub-Q). :)
- Less pain and risk from Sub-Q compared to IM.

For me Sub-Q has a great advantages over IM for HGH therapy.