View Full Version : Just took my first shot of slin.
Broke my slin cherry today LOL.
After my workout my blood glucose was 4.4mmol/L.
Took 2iu Humalog.
Drank 2 cups of orange juice with 60 grams whey protein and about 20 minutes later had two kit kat chocolate bars.
An hour later I measured 4.6mmol/L and started eating a big ass lumberjack sandwhich with processed meat, cheese, white bread, and some veggies and drank another 2 cups of orange juice.
Its kinda funny doing my first shot of slin. I was pretty nervous and it brought me back 13 years ago to my first cycle when you're holding the needle to your ass thinking 2 yourself "do I really wanna do this ?? " I kept thinking to myself as I was looking at my 3ml bottle of humalog ... do I want to take bbing this far? Haha ..
poppa_cracker
06-02-2008, 05:08 PM
you are too damn big for just 2 iu's, try your way for for one week then try my way. I bet you see and feel a huge difference! Either way good luck to you bro!
Keep posting updates. Never done slin.
Q: was that alot of sugars for only 2 iu slin. Probably just being carefull right ??
ripdtoshredz
06-02-2008, 06:44 PM
Broke my slin cherry today LOL.
Welcome to the club! I'd guess you're just being smart and working your way up from 2iu, right? Dunno if this helps, but it's something I have saved on my pc from way back.
How To Use Insulin Without Gaining Fat,
From GUY at Canadian Juice Monsters
Since Insulin is such a new subject for most of you the way I am going to do this post is going to be a little different. I am going to write a few sections on it then give links to a lot of different articles on the subject. I do not want to post a 10 page post that will just confuse you. My suggestion is to read this post and all the links then print out this post as instructions for your cycle. If you still have questions on this topic after reading it, let me know.
Insulin
Rating: 1-5 (Five being the highest)
4 Bulking
4 Cutting
2 Strength
n/a Testosterone Stimulation
n/a Use as an Anti-Estrogen
5 Side Effects
5 Ability to Keep Gains
Basic effects:
Increased workout Pumps
Increase in appetite
Increase the transport of nutrients into the muscle cells.
Side Effects:
Fat Gain
Hypoglycemia
Death
Stacking:
Creatine
Any roid
HGH
My first experience with Insulin:
About 2 years ago I tried insulin for the first time. I started using it 2weeks before my cycle to get use to it and figure out the best dosage for me. I worked up to using it at 10 units in the morning, 10 before I lift and 10 units after. I had a bout with Hypoglycemia only once but I felt pretty shitty for a few days after. Anyway I stacked it with
40grams/day Creatine
750mg/week Sust
300mg/week EQ
The cycle lasted 10 weeks and I put on 40lbs, keeping 30 of it. This is what you can expect from you first bout with slin.
Section 1 - The right insulin to use and why:
There are various types of insulin available but as bodybuilders we are only interested in the short acting types. The only two types that should be used are Humalog and the R (Regular) Types. The difference between the two is the time it takes them to peak and the time to leave your system. In my opinion Humalog is the better choice for new users. There are a few reasons for this.
1. Humalog starts to work within 15 minutes after taking it
2. Humalog more closely matches the action curves of the insulin produced in your body then the R type.
3. Humalog does not last as long as the R type
All of these effects make Humalog easier to control then the R type. The only problem with Humalog is some states that sell R type OTC require a script for Humalog…. So ask about Humalog when you call. If you cant get Humalog then use the R type but remember that there are differences…. See below:
Humalog Regular
Onset of action within 15 minutes 30 minutes
Peak effect 30-90 minutes 2-4 hours
Duration less than 5 hours 6-8 hours
Section 2 - How to obtain Insulin:
Insulin is over the counter in many states. The best was to obtain it is directly from a pharmacy. This way you know that it has been kept cold and did not lose potency. If you do not know if Insulin is OTC in your state then try this:
1. Call a pharmacy and tell them that you are from Florida and you are going to be coming to their area for a business trip for about 1 month. Tell them that you are a diabetic and you need to know if Insulin is sold with out a script their. Explain that since you live in FL you do not have a script since it is OTC. Also ask if insulin syringes are also sold OTC since some time one is but not the other. Also try this in any bordering state that is in driving distance.
The next way to get insulin is from an online pharmacy. You can usually order it and pins with out a problem. Hear is a list of sites that sell insulin and insulin syringes:
Syringe site:
http://diabetes-care.com/
Insulin site: (Note Humalog requires a script on all sites I have found)
http://www.tpsmedical.com/index.html (You have to order over the phone)
FIFTY 50 Home of FIFTY 50 Foods, FIFTY 50 Pharmacy&The Low Glycemic Diet (http://www.fifty50.com/) http://www.diabetespartners.com/cgi...gi/st_main.html http://www.diabetespartners.com/cgi...gi/st_main.html
Section 3 How to use Insulin for Beginners.
(Everything I will talk about will be using the R type since it is more available. If you can get Humalog email me if you have any questions on how to change your usage)
Now that you have your insulin let say you bought Humulin R. You need to make sure you have the right syringes. Insulin syringes are marked for units not CCs. 1 CC OF INSULIN WILL KILL YOU. So make sure you have the right type of syringes. You can order them from the sites above. Every CC of insulin has 100 units in it. When you Inject you can either Inject SubQ or Intra-muscular. Intra-muscular injections take effect about twice as quick.
Some basic rules:
1. Eat as much protein as you can plus 10grams of carbs per unit of insulin immediately after shooting the insulin.
5 units = 50 carbs
2. Keep some kind of simple carb on you at all times just incase you become hypoglycemic. A chocolate bar works well
3. Eat more protein and carbs about 2 hours after using the insulin. Around 5 grams of carbs per unit used of insulin.
4. Continually snack through out the rest of the day.
5. Try not to eat any fat for at least 4 hours after taking the insulin.
6. Try not to use insulin too late at night. You want most of it out of your system before you go to sleep
7 ***** Important ***** Be aware of the signs of Hypoglycemia:
? Shaking
? Vomiting
? headaches
? concentration problems
? visual disturbances
? muscle pain
? Weakness
? mood swings
? passing out
? Death
8. If you notice any of these signs immediately eat as many simple carbs as you can
9. Do not use any stimulants until you are use to how insulin effects you or you may mistake the signs of hypoglycemia for the effects of the stimulants.
When to take insulin:
As a beginner you should start by just taking it after working out. Start with 4 units and work up from there. Once you reach 10 units after working out try throwing in another 10 units when you wake up in the morning. I see no need to go much over 10 units at a time. I worked my way up to 20 units and all that did was make me hypoglycemic.
Hear is what your day should look like once you reach this point:
6am wake up
6:30 am Inject 10 units of Humulin R
6:31 am Eat a 12 egg white omelet and 3 waffles with enough syrup to = 100 carbs
8:30 am Drink a protein shake with at least 50 carbs in it
10:30 am an apple and a protein bar
12:30 pm Big lunch
2:30 pm Drink a protein shake (no carbs needed)
4:30 pm Snack
5:00pm workout
6:00 pm Inject 10 units of Humulin R (Assuming this is the end of your workout)
6:01pm Tuna salad with pasta and fat free mayo. (At least 100 carbs)
8:00 Drink a protein shake with at least 50 carbs in it
10:00 snack with some carbs
Before bed You should eat a good amount of carbs (50 or so) just to be safe
Insulin for Dieting:
Insulin can be used to get you into ketosis in 1 day. This really helps when doing any low carb diet. You will probably have to play around with the dosage to see what you need to get into ketosis.
This is what I do:
Eliminate carbs from your diet
Day 1 of the diet take 4 shots of insulin spaced 3 hours apart.
8am 2units of Humulin R
11am 2units of Humulin R
1pm 2units of Humulin R
3pm 2units of Humulin R
By the next morning I am deep into ketosis.
Why Insulin works:
Androgen/Insulin Synergy
By Michalovich Greutstein
Should anabolics be used with insulin or is it best to use insulin while off steroids in order to hold onto muscle mass?
We are going to demonstrate that they have to be used together. We will also try to provide some clues about their respective contribution to the synergy both hormones create. This will help us to handle both drugs better.
Here are some general observations:
It is safe to conclude something else is needed to uncover the full anabolic effect of steroids. The hormone which is the most affected by a high calorie or by a low calorie diet is insulin. Also, heavy steroid users know that past a certain amount of steroids, adding insulin will make a big difference as far as muscle gains are concerned. Insulin is thus a strong candidate as a potentiator of anabolic steroids (which we will indiscriminately refer to as androgens, steroids or anabolics). Furthermore, studies performed in trained dogs have shown a lack of insulin completely negates the anabolic effects of steroids on protein synthesis. There are some easy hypotheses such as a possible androgen receptor up regulation, a stimulation of androgen secretion, an antiaromatase effect arising from insulin. But, there is still something missing.
Using anabolics plus insulin will not make you much bigger unless you weight train. The synergy can only be realized if insulin + steroids + training are present. What is the link between those three factors?
A very likely candidate is an enzyme called insulinase. As its name implies, it is an enzyme responsible for the destruction of insulin. But we are going to see it does much more than that.
It is found inside many tissues of the body, particularly in muscle. What science is telling us is that insulinase is essential for insulin to provide its anti-catabolic effect on our muscles. It is also likely that insulinase is able to multiply the anabolic effects of androgens. It's worth repeating: insulin cannot stop protein catabolism without insulinase and the effects of steroids are potentiated by insulinase. It sure looks good.
Androgens are very powerful stimulators of the muscle protein synthesis rate. On the other hand, the muscle gains provided by androgens do not match this elevation in synthesis. steroids promote anabolism to a much higher rate than they make our muscles grow.
The reason for this discrepancy is that they also stimulate protein degradation. I know many people think they are anti-catabolic, but it is not the case. Anabolics stimulate protein turnover. This means they increase both synthesis and degradation of proteins. They are simply more effective at stimulating synthesis than degradation, which is why they make our muscles grow but not at a super fast rate. Look at how long it takes to grow huge muscles. If androgens were stimulating synthesis while inhibiting degradation, one would grow very, very quickly.
This is where insulin comes in. As we said, it mostly reduces protein degradation rate. It might stimulate protein synthesis right after training, but this effect is very limited in duration. Ideally, using insulin along with steroids would allow us to accelerate synthesis (thanks to anabolics) and reduce degradation (thanks to insulin). This is the best way to grow muscle fast.
Unfortunately, as both insulin and anabolics need insulinase to work better, they will compete against each other for this enzyme. For natural athletes, the supply of muscle insulinase should roughly meet the demand. Now if you add anabolics, there will be less insulinase for insulin. If you do not take too high a dose of steroids, the level of insulinase should still be sufficient to allow a fair insulin-induced anti-catabolism.
But as you take more steroids, the insulinase available for insulin will be lower and lower.
Insulin will lose its anti-catabolic effect. As it will still bind some insulinase, the enzyme availability for steroids will not be optimal either. Anabolics will lose some of their potency.
What is important to understand is that past a certain dose, anabolics will provide their own antidote against muscle growth. The only solution (beside using less steroids) is to increase insulinase level.
At least two factors can accomplish this feat:
The first one is insulin itself. The higher the insulin level is in a target organ (muscle for example) the higher the insulinase level will be. You would expect that the body would detect the shortage of insulinase for insulin and so produce more insulin (or more insulinase).
Unfortunately, this does not seem to be the case. While insulinase is crucial for the anti-catabolic effect of insulin, it does not seem as important for glucose disposal.
Insulin's main function is not to assist in muscle growth but to control glucose homeostasis. As a result, it is likely our body does not really care about a relative shortage of insulinase. In any case, we are left with a less than optimal equilibrium. It is up to the bodybuilder to react to this imbalance.
One way of increasing insulin secretion is to eat more, but you can only do so up to a point. You cannot increase your carb intake in parallel with the amount of steroids without getting too fat. Another solution is to use drugs to add or to stimulate insulin secretion. This way you get the insulin without the excess of calories.
In any case you now understand why steroids work better while on a high calorie diet while they lose their potency during a diet or a shortage of insulin.
Here is a way of "artificially increasing insulin level": One dose of long acting insulin first thing in the morning (this is the only injection). Before each meal (except the pre-workout one), take a sulfonylurea (an oral anti-diabetic drug which will boost food induced insulin secretion ). I like Glipizide because of its short half-life. In case you experience hypoglycemia, you know it will not last. This is the main problem with the long acting sulfonylureas. When you are hypoglycemic, you try to compensate by absorbing carbs. But the drug will make your pancreas secrete even more insulin before the carbs can hit the blood. It makes the hypoglycemia worse - not better.
In case of problems, make sure you get some ready-to-inject Glucagon (sold as "insulin emergency kits" in drugstores). An additional benefit of the Glipizide is that it induces the release of GH on top of insulin which is beneficial for non diabetics.
This is a nice way to fix the reduced anticatabolic property of insulin. Unfortunately, this will not yet provide the optimal amount of insulinase to have steroids work better.
We said that training was the third key ingredient in this synergy. This is because training can stimulate insulinase activity. Not any exercise will do. The traumatic ones inducing muscle soreness are the most effective. It is the factors inducing soreness which will trigger this increase in insulinase.
On the other hand, you do not want to create too much soreness as it will temporarily reduce the effects of insulin and androgens by impairing their effects at the level of their respective receptors. What you want is mild but frequent soreness along with some very frequent pumping sessions.
Do not forget both androgens and insulin circulate in the blood. The more blood you get into the muscles (and the longer it stays), the more your muscles will be "drenched" in those two hormones. Please note that insulinase is produced locally in the trained muscles only. It does not circulate into the blood.
Yeah what I'm going to do is jump up 2iu per workout until I feel comfortable in the 10-12iu range post workout.
Workout
1 - Chest/Back
2 - Legs
3 - Arms
4 - Rest
With all the talk about keeping your insulin response/sensitivity maybe it might be a good idea to split my chest and back into AM/PM workouts and use 10iu Humalog 2x/day on day one taking days two to four off from slin. So day one (6am) chest >> 10iu humalog >> a ton of eating >> back workout (4pm) >> 10iu Humalog >> more eating. ??? Maybe in the future once I know more about my body.
Data,
Could you please give us your blood sugar readings in mg/dl? Thats much more common and more people would be able to understand the numbers. As far as your eating, I would not do the chocolate bars or the sandwich, you foods should be very clean to minimize fat gains. Generally speaking, you take the shot and drink a glucose drink with some creatine/glutamine/bcaa's thrown in. 20 mins later WPI drink. 1 hour post injection a white rice/tuna fish or chicken breast meal. Three and a half hours post injection, you can get into small amounts of fat, like lean beaf, but I try to keep my foods as lean as possible. With that meal, eat a slower carb such as oats. I have been talking with alchemy about a 3x a day, 3 days a week protocol that should have no effect on insulin sensitivity, if you are interested I will get you the info.
To convert mmol/L to mg/dl multiply by 18.
To convert mg/L to mmol/L divide by 18.
So 4.6 x 18 is 83.
Basically what I'm going to do is have a breakfast of egg whites & cheese with some oats. An hour later workout for 45 minutes. After my workout I'm taking some dbol and humalog. Post workout shake 2 cups orange juice, 1 banana, 2 cups blueberries, 60 grams whey, 13 grams gluatmine, and 6 grams creatine. In the next 30-60 minutes I'll probably have a couple chicken breasts with a couple baked potatoes and probably have that every 60-90 minutes for the next five hours. I just quit my job and going back to school so I'll have lots of time to eat LOL. After the five hour window my meals will mostly be beef with rice and mixed veggies. Try to get most of my protein/carb calories in the 5 hour window of opportunity LOL.
Just started taking 30-40mg of dbol post workout and shooting 500mg of testosterone cypionate 3x/wk so total 1500mg/wk.
Good. If you are running PWO only, I would suggest starting at 4iu's and every fourth shot bumping it by 1iu, to assess tolerance. 83mg/dl is completely normal, thanks for the conversion.
Three consecutive days on humalog. First day was 2iu - second day was 4iu - and third day 5iu.
The second day after shooting 4iu I decided to control my glucose intake and see how little I needed. So after my 4iu shot I drank a cup of orange juice (20-25g sugar) with 60 grams of whey and waited. About 45 minutes later I started to get shaky and some anxiety. Blood sugar was 3.1mmol/L or 56mg/dl. After drinking another cup of orange juice I started stuffing my face with chicken, potatoes, and some bbq sauce and was fine in 10 minutes my blood sugar was a normal 4.6mmol/L or 83mg/dl.
I worked my chest. Damn I don't know if it was the Humalog or what but I had an amazing pump. All I did was about 6 sets and I couldn't even finish my workout. I was suppose to do dips to finish up the chest and I had to stop, not because I hit failure, but because my chest was so pumped that I couldn't really stretch it out. My chest was thick, full, hard looking, and in so much pain that my wife had to tell me to stop being such a little bitch. Haha.
Anyways I've noticed that Humalog takes an hour to really start lowing your blood sugar. Post workout my blood sugar is about 4.5 to 5mmol/L or 80 to 90mg/dl. After I shoot the slin my sugar levels dont drop significantly within 0 to 45 minutes but at the hour mark I get to just under 4mmol/L or 72mg/dl.
So far I'm three days in, still 200lbs, but I can see some fullness already.
See data, I think you got a little risky there. The point is to never let yourself go hypo, thats when you start asking for trouble. I am glad to see you increasing your doses, however, please be a little more safe.
What glucose levels do you guy maintain when on humalog and what dose? I'm up to 8iu post workout and I'm having a hard time maintaining higher than 4.0mmol/L or 70mg/dl. Even after taking in a shitload of carbs. For example today my blood sugar level was 3.9mmol/L (70mg/dl) after my workout. I shot 8iu subcut in the stomach and had shake consisting of 80 grams of carbs via orange juice, a banana, blueberries, whey protein, glutamine, creatine. 30 minutes later I had a packet of oats w/ whey protein. Another 30 minutes later (so 60minutes after the shot) I had another orange juice shake and shortly after (~ 60 minutes post 8iu slin) I was still measuring 3.9mmol (70mg). I probably had close to 300 grams of sugar from the juice alone cause I drank another liter of grape juice @ 32g sugar/cup.
I can feel the 8iu working in like 60 minutes and I have to slam back way more than 10g carbs per iu.
Pumps are good incredible and I look really full like 2-3 hrs post workout lol.
I'm finding it hard to maintain higher levels of blood sugar with complex carbs like potatoes and esp white rice. Potatoes seem to absorb faster than rice. But I'm still needing to take a shitload of simple sugars within the first couple hrs to maintain 4.0 (70mg).
I aim for over 80mg/dl. What worked for me is the following: PWO IGF 100mcg. 20 mins later, 10iu's humalog, 120g waxy maize, 10g bcaa's, 10g glutamine, 5g creatine. 20 minutes later, 56g whey isolate. 40 minutes later, blood glucose reading. If over 80mg/dl, then 2 cans tuna, 1 cup dry measurement of jasmine rice (176g carbs- holy shit, didn't realize it was this much til I went to post, I think the last brand was like 32 per 1/4 cup.) If under 80mg/dl, than the same meal with 8 oz grape juice. I was taking readings every half hour, however, the only time they would ever be lower than 80 was at the 1 hour mark. I think your oats are the problem. Your OJ is out fast, but the oats take a while to digest. You need something a little faster.
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